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[–][deleted]  (40 children)

[deleted]

    [–]spliznork 9 points10 points  (0 children)

    When I was doing some hiring (I'm Engineering, not HR), I'd read the first page then only flip though the remaining pages. Usually my opinion dropped as I had to flip through more and more pages, thinking, "You really thought I needed to know all this?" The resume is just a first impression - a foot in the door - you still need to make it through the interviews. A good, solid single page resume should be enough to let them know approximately what kind of person you are and what you can do. Extra pages in a resume may not hurt your chances of getting hired, but they're probably not helping, either.

    [–]IrishWilly 6 points7 points  (8 children)

    That's the first thing I noticed too (also from the US). I've always heard to condense your resume, they want to see the essentials not read a marketing pitch from every applicant. Maybe that's become less standard in programming jobs where job titles don't really tell you much. Or maybe since they are passed around digitally now, 'pages' isn't so relevent.

    This definitely made me think though; I've been following the keep it simple and compact rule.. and have been looking for work for a while. I'll make two resumes, one that is long and more detailed for digital submissions and it's compact print version.

    [–]finerrecliner 4 points5 points  (6 children)

    I've heard that having over 1 page is fine and no longer frowned upon. However, put all of your "must-see" information on the first page. Anything after that has a high probability of being skipped.

    [–]madman1969 3 points4 points  (5 children)

    I've had 10+ jobs over the last 20 years, so I now have two standard CV's.

    The first is the edited highlights edition which covers 2 pages, the second is a full-fat edition which covers 8 pages.

    I normally supply recruitment agencies with both and let them choose the appropriate one for the firm I question.

    [–]shr3kst3r 1 point2 points  (3 children)

    Down vote me if you like, but dude, 10+ jobs in 20 years? That means, on average, you never stuck with one job more then 1 year and 364 days (20/10+ < 2). A lot of employers will look down on this, and yes I know there are exceptions.

    [–]madman1969 7 points8 points  (2 children)

    This is why statistics don't tell the whole story. I worked at one firm for 5 years, another for 3 years, and 3 of the companies I worked at folded, one within months of me joining it.

    [–]fuzzybunn 6 points7 points  (1 child)

    Are you... THE EMPLOYEE OF DOOM?

    [–]madman1969 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    MUHAHAHAHAH !

    [–]M0b1u5 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

    Protip: Reduce your short on to a single page; it is only to get an interview.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Another argument to keep one's résumé short: experience can play against you, it shows your age. Remove everything that is older than n years (whatever n works for you), and omit graduation dates.

    [–]sysop073 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Mine is two pages, and when I print it I usually double-side it, so it has general info and schooling on the front and work experience on the back -- it took a long time for me to figure out most people reading my resume assumed it was one side and figured I just had no work experience

    [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (8 children)

    That is a myth. It is fine to have resumes over 1 page these days.

    [–]brownmatt 14 points15 points  (6 children)

    as long as your content (read: experience) merits the length

    this guy's resume is four pages for two jobs

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [deleted]

      [–]treerex 6 points7 points  (0 children)

      Not to me: if I get a four page resume from someone who has had two jobs it instantly screams that they're padding.

      [–]M0b1u5 -2 points-1 points  (3 children)

      No. No it doesn't.

      Nothing merits more than 1 side of 1 sheet. It's to get you an interview. I just chuck the other pages away, and if what was important was on page 2 - tough shit for you.

      [–]Xhyce 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Nothing important should be on page 2.

      [–]brownmatt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      this seems like pretty silly advice to me.

      If you work experience is lengthy enough that it doesn't deserve to be whittled down to 4-5 sentences per job, then what is the harm in listing it on an extra sheet?

      If you are the type of employer who refuses to look at page 2 then it sounds like you are shooting yourself in the foot by throwing away half or more of what your applications are trying to tell you.

      Some of us don't really want to edit ourselves down to the common denominator

      [–]MagicalVagina 0 points1 point * (0 children)

      Yeah but, you know, with all the presentation header stuff (company address, name, situation etc), one page is really too short.

      I really think 2 pages is OK if the second page is really the page which contains the information.

      For instance, first page: Name, company address, spoken languages, academic diplomas.

      Second page: The stuff that count. Your experience. Programming languages abilities. And stuff like that.

      I think with this presentation, 2 pages is not a problem, because the reader focuses on the second one.

      But more than two pages ? -> trash. Definitely.

      [–]M0b1u5 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

      No, no it isn't.

      [–]rooktakesqueen 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      In my opinion, and from what I've heard from recruiters and teachers, a one-page resume is good for someone at the entry level. Once you're beyond entry level, you can go to 2 pages, but it's probably good to cut it off there.

      Readability is the key, though. Do something to highlight the important bits so they stand out when skimmed over.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [deleted]

        [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

        As an European who reviews resumes on a regular basis, I can tell you it's not. 2 pages is maximum.

        Not that any candidate cares, by the way. I fucking hate those long resumes. Programmers are very lucky they are so scarce, or I would delete those 30-page monstrosities in an instant.

        [–]cowens -4 points-3 points  (16 children)

        My résumé (although it is more of a C.V. than a résumé) is five pages long: three pages of summary and work experience, a one page table of relevant OSes, languages, and products and my experience level in each of them, and one page of references. I have never had a problem find a job and many people have commented favorably on my layout.

        [–]7points3hoursago 6 points7 points  (0 children)

        My résumé (although it is more of a C.V. than a résumé) is five pages long:

        You're doin it wrong!

        [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

        I'm in high school – what does C.V. mean?

        [–]pithed 3 points4 points  (2 children)

        Curriculum vitae. Mainly used in academia.

        [–]maikeru 3 points4 points  (0 children)

        ... and in the UK.

        [–]project2501 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        ... and the rest of the world.

        [–]zyle 0 points1 point  (9 children)

        If you have an ENTIRE page dedicated to relevant OSes and languages, it would construe you to be a "jack of all trades, master of none" kind of candidate.

        I can't see anyone being a professional expert at more than two languages, and maybe superficial use of another one or perhaps two. Anything over that is just amateurish dabbling.

        [–]hazridi 3 points4 points  (7 children)

        Please, it's pretty easy to be proficient in all of the Algol-derived C family, consisting of C, C++, Java, and C#. Now if you know the .NET framework and you can write code in Visual Basic, you can include that too. Now do you do any web development work? If so, you probably know JavaScript as well, and perhaps PHP or Python or Ruby, and SQL to boot.

        [–]zyle 6 points7 points  (6 children)

        it's pretty easy to be proficient in all of the Algol-derived C family, consisting of C, C++, Java, and C#.

        The massive complexity of C++ alone would take an inordinate time to master and keep up with. Sure, you could know enough to find your way around all of those, but extremely unlikely one could claim expertise in all four of them, certainly not at a professional level.

        And knowing C doesn't mean you're good at C++, and knowing C++ doesn't mean you're good at C.

        [–][deleted]  (5 children)

        [deleted]

          [–]zyle 7 points8 points  (4 children)

          I cannot speak for java or C#, but I strongly disagree with your views about C++. I work professionally with C++. I still see people and interview people who claim years of C++ proficiency and have failed to master even basic concepts. Most C++ "programmers" would be at a loss to really explain what "cout" is let alone name dependent lookups, and have no notion of more arcane topics like template specizliations or SFINAE.

          The language is without a doubt complex and obscure and not forgiving to sloppy programming. It does not mollycoddle you like other managed languages such as python. There hasn't been much change in C++ over the years, but it's not something you can gain proficiency in as easily as some other languages. I would be highly suspect of anyone who opines that there are just a "couple of minor details to keep in your head" when it comes to C++.

          [–]hyp3rVigi1ant 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          hazridi: C++ is not nearly as difficult as everyone makes it out to be... there are just a lot of minor details to keep in your head.

          zyle: I would be highly suspect of anyone who opines that there are just a "couple of minor details to keep in your head" when it comes to C++.

          [–][deleted]  (2 children)

          [deleted]

            [–]zyle 4 points5 points  (1 child)

            I'm not saying you're poor at C++. I disagree with your opinion that it's not a difficult language to master. You could certainly be quite proficient at it, but based on what I've seen and heard, most people simply are not, and have not taken the pain and trouble to really delve into the specifics of the language.

            No one knows what cout is because it's not someting that's properly covered in "Teach yourself C++ in 30 days" or whatever, which seems to be the extent of most "professional" C++ programmers education in this context. However, I'd wager "Teach yourself Python in 30 days" would make you quite good at Python, which is fine. C++ however, doesn't fit quite like that.

            [–]hazridi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            I don't think it's difficult to master, I think there are very few master programmers. I've taught a few people who have the mind to be really skilled at programming and they catch on, no matter if I am teaching them Python, Java, or C++. C++ has a greater complexity than Python but the type of people who are best at programming will have no problem eating complexity for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

            You can teach a mediocre programmer how to be good at Python, and they won't hinder other people much. You can't teach a mediocre programmer how to be good at C++, they don't have the mental capacity.

            [–]madman1969 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Sorry but your wrong. My first paying gigs were in 68k assembler and Pascal, followed by C, C++, Java and finally VB.Net/C#. That excludes all of the scripting languages along the way such as REXX and Tcl, and other oddities like <shudder>COBOL<shudders/>.

            None of these were 'amateurish dabbling', instead we're talking about daily usage over multiple years. Some of those languages, i.e. Java/VB/C#, didn't exist when I originally started working.

            [–]brownmatt 9 points10 points  (0 children)

            Link to view this thru Google docs converter (avoid having to download the .doc onto your system)

            [–]FastFourierTransform 8 points9 points  (1 child)

            Oh God. That may be one of the WORST resumes I've seen. Now I will never make a criticism if I don't have a resolution. Problems in no particular order:

            1) No where does it list what you actually DID at your previous companies. You list a few "job responsibilities". No one cares about what those were. People reading a resume want to know what YOU did. "Development of new functionality"? TELL ME what that was. I don't care about new functionality. I care that you cut the processing time of a purchase order by 3/4.

            2) Played guitar? Again. I DON'T CARE. How does playing a guitar help my company? It's useless information. The resume is a network writing document that sells yourself as a professional. It's not a personal ad.

            3) Arbitrary classifications. You have a "sound proficiency" in SQL. What does that mean? You know how to do SELECT, UPDATE, DELETE? Am I supposed to try and infer that category that you know what a correlated subquery is?

            4) Too much whitespace. It's one of the reasons why it's long as hell. Not only are you putting useless information on there, there's huge spaces of nothing. If I'm hiring you for web development and you can't even have a decent format for the most important document of your professional life, how the HELL are you going to design my webpage?

            5) Seems like everything that wasn't a set list has some sort of construction problem with nominalization(among other things). For example: "This course gave me exposure" is "exposed". Don't change verbs to nouns.

            That's five problems. I could list five more. All those classes, and the one you really SHOULD have taken should have been a technical writing course.

            [–]ares623 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Just posting to say that whitespace is never a bad thing.

            [–]welicious 23 points24 points  (20 children)

            In Europe, the Europass project helps students making their first CV. There's plenty Europass templates around, including a useful LaTeX package. IMHO, I think it's better for a CS graduate to use a tool like LaTeX instead of OO.org or MS Office.

            Here you can compose your own Europass CV, and here you can download the EuropeCV LaTeX package.

            Hope it will be helpful to someone :)

            [–]STAii 3 points4 points  (0 children)

            +1 for linking to LaTex package.

            [–]jc4p 4 points5 points  (0 children)

            I read your first sentence and starting googling for the LaTeX package, after I found it I read the rest of your post and saw that you linked to it. Thanks!

            [–]shooshx 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            Bleh. looks ugly.

            [–]pro_skub 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Yup. It is quite ugly. I go for simplicity and function without losing elegance.

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (15 children)

            ...photograph? date of birth? nationality? gender? ...and that's on the first page alone... later one must indicate one's 'mother tongue' and something about 'social skills'...

            Seriously?

            [–]welicious 1 point2 points  (9 children)

            Yes, seriously.

            Don't know what fields a CV should contain in USA, but in Europe this is pretty obvious. Employers want to know what's your mother tongue, how well you would work in a group, etcetera.

            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (8 children)

            ...and you can figure out how well someone would work in a group from their physical appearance, gender, ethnic origin and age?

            [–]welicious 0 points1 point  (7 children)

            No, from his/her social skills :)

            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children)

            ...ah! now that would make sense, but how does one vouch for one's own social skills on a résumé? would putting 'I was very popular in high school! honest!...' somewhere in the introduction work? :-)

            [–]welicious 0 points1 point  (5 children)

            And I would put I've a PhD in CS and a Turing Award :)

            Ok, I'm not sure this things about social skills are useful at all, and believe interviewers should evaluate if that's true or not, but like everything else!

            Other sections are needed. In Europe we've >20 different languages. I've 2 mother tongues, for example. A photo is often needed if you want to apply for certain consultant/organical or functional analyst positions, and so on. Maybe in the US things are different.

            But what the hell, I think my LaTeX cv looks great :)

            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

            It makes sense to mention the languages one speaks and/or understands, and with which what degree of fluency, but it is nobody's business what your 'mother tongue' is, unless you care about one's ethnicity (which most definitely should not be used in making hiring decisions).

            consultant/organical or functional analyst positions

            ...and why would you care about one's physical appearances for these functions?

            [–]barsoap 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            but it is nobody's business what your 'mother tongue' is, unless you care about one's ethnicity (which most definitely should not be used in making hiring decisions)

            It's the language you're most proficient in. Discrimination by ethnicity is forbidden in the EU. You might have a British nationality and still have French be your native tongue, such things happen around here.

            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point * (0 children)

            'mother tongue'

            It's the language you're most proficient in.

            Ok, so this is a semantics issue. 'Mother tongue' to me, means the language of your parents, which may or may not be the language you are the most proficient in (it may not be the case, for instance, for second generation immigrants, people who tend to be discriminated against routinely). If the form were asking which language one is most proficient in, then it would IMHO be a legitimate request without the potential for arbitrary discrimination.

            Discrimination by ethnicity is forbidden in the EU.

            If forms for job applications are allowed to ask questions specifically meant to determine one's ethnicity (e.g., mother tongue, picture, etc.) as opposed to being directly related to the requirements of the job, then how am I to believe that these discriminations are indeed forbidden?

            Even if the hiring manager, or the company doing the hiring at large, is totally unprejudiced, there are a lot of people who process job applications and résumés who might be, from the low level admin processing the mail, to the HR drone pre-screening applicants. One way to limit the effects of irrational prejudices and arbitrary discriminations is to eliminate as much as possible the temptation/opportunities, and remove from the application forms any information that is not directly relevant to the job.

            EDIT: ...I work for a large company in the Silicon Valley, and everybody who might be involved in hiring decisions, i.e., from HR people, to engineers doing interviews, go through seminars about hiring practices and policies. They go into great details about what may or may not be asked of an applicant. For one thing, we don't want to be sued :-) but also, it simply wastes time that could be better used to screen the applicant effectively, and shifts the focus away from what actually matters. One thing I have learned, is that the résumés we (people conducting the interviews) see, may have been processed by our HR folks, to remove any irrelevant personal informations (in the rare cases of people who insist in sticking it in anyway).

            EDIT2: ...from previous edit, which means that going through great length to make a really flashy résumé with fancy layout and all that might be for naught, since the people making hiring decisions might very well never see it, but rather a plain text edited version. So, sticking to a plain and conventional presentation might be a better strategy, as it ensures that the info it contains actually makes it through to said people.

            [–]welicious 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            Because you should deal with a bunch of people in a suit :)

            Definitely, US is very different to Europe.

            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Because you should deal with a bunch of people in a suit :)

            ...then you care about this person's demeanor and attitude, may be fashion sense and taste, all things that you won't be able to determine from a picture.

            ...you guys have to wear suits to work? heck, I am over 40, and I never even owned one; never had to wear one at work, and my friends/relatives are cool enough to tolerate 'business casual' and/or denims attires for their respective weddings and funerals.

            [–]barsoap 0 points1 point  (4 children)

            Yes. In Germany, add family status (n kids).

            The "soft skills" section (not "social skills") is mostly about whether you're able to critically assess yourself, copy+pasting a list of properties usually doesn't work out. The better they match the interview impression, the better.

            All those national CV standards are of course less important the more international your company is (and I don't mean "exports to all over the world" but "is international"), in that case, tell everything that is needed to hire you.

            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

            tell everything that is needed to hire you.

            ...and how is family status 'needed' when it comes to hiring someone, say, for an engineering job? it is none of the potential employer's business. Same thing for the picture (unless you are applying for a modeling or acting job that is), or age, or nationality (as long as you can legally work there), or gender, etc.

            Now, something like the family status might become relevant after an offer has been made and accepted for issues such health insurance beneficiaries, whatever family oriented perks a company might have, etc., but it shouldn't be asked before to determine whether a person should be hired or not...

            [–]barsoap -1 points0 points * (2 children)

            If you've got an unruly lot of teenage kids in your company, being a parent is a qualification.

            If you are married with three kids and apply as a truck driver, the employer has to know because he has a legitimate interest in probing you whether or not your new job won't collide too much with your private life.

            That put aside, there's a catalogue of questions the company must not ask (German) (or, rather, if you get asked such a question and lie, you cannot be fired because of it).

            The photograph is traditional. I personally don't value it, at all, but there might be valid reasons to do so.

            In general, not only resume practices, but also work and employment ethics differ from country to country. You're well-advised to acquaintance yourself with them, even if you're bound to get slack if you're foreign, lack of will to integrate won't get you far. German employment is much longer-term and trust-based than the US hire&fire-practice, so more information is required. It's quite hard to fire an employee once you've hired him.

            [–][deleted] -1 points0 points * (1 child)

            whether or not your new job won't collide too much with your private life.

            That's not the potential employer's decision to make. If someone is applying for a job, s/he presumably has already figured this one out.

            The photograph [...] there might be valid reasons to do so.

            Other than modeling and acting, there is none, except of course to satisfy the potential employer's -- which includes anyone processing the résumé -- personal prejudices...

            employment ethics differ from country to country

            I am well aware of this, and this is part of the reason why some of us left. (That said, the link you provided seems to indicate that irrelevant personal questions -- such as family status -- are also off limits in Germany...)

            [–]barsoap 0 points1 point * (0 children)

            That's not the potential employer's decision to make. If someone is applying for a job, s/he presumably has already figure this one out.

            Yes. and the employer has the right to test it. "I'm divorced, have two under-12 yo kids at home and want to spend most of my work time in other cities and they can't stay at their grandparent's, either" doesn't work out.

            Generally, employers won't ask things they don't have a legally backed reason to know, because you can sue them for damages should they refuse to hire you.

            I am well aware of this, and this is part of the reason why some of us left. (That said, the link you provided seems to indicate that irrelevant personal questions -- such as family status -- are also off limits in Germany...)

            "Privatleben" and "Familienstand" are two wholly different topics. They aren't allowed to ask whether you or your spouse is the dominant person at home, whether you prefer cowgirl or missionary, the topic of your last quarrel, how the kids are doing at school...

            [–]NanoStuff 28 points29 points  (5 children)

            I didn't realize employers are in demand of painful colors and generic self praise, there's my problem.

            [–]jackystan 21 points22 points  (0 children)

            They're not. This would be an average resume without the extra wasted space and generic self praise. With that junk, it becomes below average resume.

            [–]Shocker88 2 points3 points  (1 child)

            If you dont sell yourself when you're applying for a job, good luck. You need to be able to back it up, but if you go into an interview just saying yeah I can do stuff pretty alright...One of the other guys will get that job.

            [–]NancyGracesTesticles 3 points4 points  (0 children)

            I hope that the applicant helps me find the information I am looking for, not because I'll pass him up just because of the resume format, but because I am very likely to miss something that would make me want to call him in for an interview.

            The wanker section made it more difficult to find out what the candidate actually did. Although if he gets a call, it will make it easier to identify him to the interview team:

            "Who do we have at 9?"
            "That wanker resume."
            "Oh yeah, that guy."

            [–]teknobo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            You're supposed to save them for the cover letter. Duh.

            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            If you have a phone number, someone from India will call you...

            [–]thedward 6 points7 points  (1 child)

            Andrew Cooke posted a link to his CV [pdf] awhile ago and I think it is a nice example. I especially like the graph representing his experience with different technologies.

            [–]depleater 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Not bad. Pity about the spelling error ("management of remote data procesing"), but if I was actually reviewing that CV I think I'd manage to overlook it. :)

            [–]stkerr 31 points32 points  (20 children)

            You should send a resume as a PDF, not a .doc.

            Also, I don't think the references at the bottom are needed. If they want references they'll ask you directly for them.

            Depending on your age, this resume might be too long.

            [–]benihana 7 points8 points  (3 children)

            Also, I don't think the references at the bottom are needed. If they want references they'll ask you directly for them.

            Same for recreational activities. People scanning resumes don't give a shit about what you do for fun. They'll ask you during the interview(s) if they care.

            [–]kitsuneudon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            I don't know - determining if you'll fit in with the culture of the workplace and your potential workmates is important and can be reflected in your interests outside of work.

            [–]sliggle 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Yeah the recreational activities and 'attributes' were a wtf from me. It's a whole other page worth of stuff not related to the job at hand.

            [–]BrightCandle 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Actually I use the recreational activities section quite a bit. There are quite a few positives to it saying a particular open source project someone commits to, that way I can go look at some code they have produced. It has the potential to get you in the door if its relevant to your skills, otherwise it is just noise.

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Right, but when posting to Reddit, .PDF makes more sense. But maybe I take for granted PDF capabilities being on a Mac and all. To me making a PDF is trivial.

            [–][deleted]  (7 children)

            [deleted]

              [–]BrightCandle 10 points11 points  (1 child)

              They do this so they can remove all your contact details and add their logo onto the document. That way the companies can't contact you directly you have to go via the recruiter for everything to do with that candidate.

              PDFs on the other hand they don't know how to edit (RC's are not tech savy people!)

              [–]dwdyer 7 points8 points  (0 children)

              They do this so they can remove all your contact details and add their logo onto the document. That way the companies can't contact you directly you have to go via the recruiter for everything to do with that candidate.

              And in some unscrupulous cases they do it so that they can tweak your CV/resume to better match the job description. Or in one case I heard of, to "correct" the spelling of CORBA to COBRA.

              [–]dobs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Plus it's easier to convert from a Word doc to a PDF than the other way around.

              I made the PDF mistake during my own recent job hunt: My resume was a meticulously formatted HTML page that printed nicely to PDF, and I assumed that between the two I'd be set. Recruiters all wanted Word docs and many job sites would rather have you paste plain text into their own fields.

              Some job sites provide rudimentary support for parsing Word files and PDFs, but tend to have a hard time if the document isn't completely linear. Little niceties like the skills sidebar in this particular resume tend to break them.

              [–]zyle 0 points1 point  (3 children)

              So send both. And while you're at it, send a txt too.

              [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

              Markdown!

              [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

              LaTeX

              [–]mociman 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Butterflies!

              [–]6553321 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              That's what I thought, but if the intention is to give the Redditors a template, I think .doc is the better alternative.

              [–]Grizzant 13 points14 points * (10 children)

              It is to long, it is to wordy, and it is terribly formatted.

              When you receive 200+ resumes for a single position, after a while you get to a point going through them that if it is going to be a pain in the ass to read, you just drop it in the garbage.

              if you think you are so hot shit your resume can break all the rules, you are wrong; The better you are, the less words you need to get it across, the easier to read it gets.

              also, don't just proof read it, have 1 or 2 other people proof read it. i know its annoying but if you are sloppy to get work you will prob be sloppy once you have work.

              [–]Fabien4 7 points8 points  (8 children)

              don't just proof read it, have 1 or 2 other people proof read it.

              Good advice:

              its annoying

              [–]Grizzant 0 points1 point * (7 children)

              nice catch. you can be 1 person.

              as i said, it can be annoying, so in general I don't do it; i think most people don't. hence it is important to remind them there are times it is important.

              clearly, to me, this post isn't one of them. :-p

              [–]Fabien4 4 points5 points  (6 children)

              The thing is, if you get used to inadequate writing, which seems to be the case according to your two posts, writing properly in a resume (or other important occasions) will prove more difficult.

              [–]Grizzant 0 points1 point  (5 children)

              it does prove more difficult; as a result i spend 2 or 3 times the amount of time someone who writes alot would need to spend. I don't mind that, however, since it has an overall net time savings since I rewrite my resume once every 2-3 years. Thus 3 hours every 2-3 years instead of 1 hour or even 30 minutes is still less time then taking 10 minutes a day to practice writing well.

              In all honesty though, i would be well served by spending 10 minutes a day practicing writing; i just haven't brought myself to do it yet.

              [–]Fabien4 2 points3 points  (4 children)

              In all honesty though, i would be well served by spending 10 minutes a day practicing writing

              You just can't "practice writing" like you do e.g. 10 push-ups every morning.

              OTOH, every time you write a message on Reddit (or somewhere else), you can practice.

              As a rule of thumb, never send a message, whatever the context, without reading it over once.

              You can start slow, by fixing the obvious problems, e.g. remembering that a sentence starts with an upper case letter, and that the pronoun "I" is always upper case.

              Also, the "its/it's" problem, which is by far the most common in written English, can be easily fixed: if you can say "it is" or "it has", then write "it's"; otherwise, write "its".

              Same goes for "their" vs "they're" (the latter meaning "they are").

              [–]wicked 0 points1 point  (3 children)

              You just can't "practice writing" like you do e.g. 10 push-ups every morning.

              Why not? Lots of people use blogging to do that.

              [–]Fabien4 1 point2 points  (2 children)

              The discussion was about grammar. You can't practice grammar with nothing to write. (Yeah, you could do exercises from a grammar book, but you'll be bored after a couple of days.)

              [–]wicked 0 points1 point  (1 child)

              And you doing push-ups every morning is not boring?

              [–]Fabien4 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Dunno. I've never tried.

              [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              I have no intention to be mean, however, I will say it anyway, as a tip.

              When I see someone mistake the word to for too, I let it pass as a potential mistype. When it occurs twice in the same sentence, I am likely reading the words of someone who has a deep disrespect for literacy. This has implications for whether or not I might consider your CV any further.

              [–]thedward 8 points9 points  (6 children)

              FYI, it looks like this when I open it.

              [–]hyp3rVigi1ant 3 points4 points  (3 children)

              I'm seeing nearly the same exact thing. I'm using OpenOffice 3.1 on Ubuntu 9.10.

              [–]LudoA 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Try with the latest version of OpenOffice - if it's still not fixed, please submit it as a bug report!

              Oracle is actively working on OpenOffice.

              [–]physicsnick 0 points1 point  (1 child)

              Same here too. I hit print preview hoping it would hide all that comment bullshit, and OO just froze on me.

              [–]LudoA 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Please submit it as a bug report!

              Oracle is actively working on OpenOffice.

              [–]7points3hoursago -1 points0 points  (0 children)

              You are supposed to remove the comment in red.

              [–]johnaldmcgee 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              Lime green? I will have to remember that.

              [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              Attributes at the beginning are a waste of space. Save it for the cover letter. I would focus more on what you've actually done, rather than what you claim to know. It seems like you've listed every buzzword and IT technology released in the past 15 years. For the techs listed in the skills section, are you prepared to answer technical question on each of those? How many years of experience do you have for each?

              The section about "exposure to technologies I have not used professionally" seems like a waste of space. That's what your academic transcript is for.

              Like you stated, I wouldn't put the degree you didn't complete in your resume, unless there's a really good reason. Are you a quitter? Is that it? Am I hiring some vagabond quitter who can't even finish a measly IT degree?

              Personal projects is devoid of anything meaningful; lose it. Unless you have something to say. If so, why haven't you said it?

              "Recreational activities?" Nobody cares, lose it.

              I'm not sure if it's such a good idea to have your referees publicised like that, unless they don't mind having their details published.

              [–]exampleresume 4 points5 points  (1 child)

              Perhaps those criticising could share their own resumes?

              Here is mine (PDF). It's technology heavy because I've been doing contracting. There are only so many time you can answer "do you know OOP" before it goes on the resume.

              [–]MindStalker 4 points5 points  (0 children)

              Dude! I'm a Reddit alumni too!

              [–]M0b1u5 4 points5 points  (3 children)

              It is 2 pages too long.

              I hire.

              I take the top page from the application letter, and the top page of the Resume, and chuck the rest in the trash. If you can't convince me to give you an interview using two pieces of paper, printed on one side each, then you can't work for our company.

              It's just that simple.

              Job application: 1 side of 1 sheet.
              Resume: 1 side of 1 sheet.

              Remember: the one and ONLY task of the job application is to get an interview.

              Imagine this: 900 applicants, each with 2 pages of application letters and 5 pages of CV. That's 6,300 pages. You think I'm gonna read more than a single page? You gotta be fucking kidding me.

              [–]depleater 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              Are you seriously suggesting that the company you hire for has advertised a job which had nine hundred applicants?

              Well, shit. If you routinely get even half that many, I wouldn't blame you at all for using whatever techniques you wanted to thin out the numbers. Including the just-randomly-bin-two-of-every-three-applications approach :).

              I'd be very intrigued to see what the job ad looked like that got so many applicants.

              [–]dwdyer 5 points6 points  (0 children)

              Including the just-randomly-bin-two-of-every-three-applications approach :)

              Useful to avoid hiring unlucky people.

              [–]Xhyce 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              This is important - resume's don't land jobs. They land interviews.

              [–]chadn 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              Without evaluating the content, the presentation is not impressive (I'm the engineer who has resume duty at my company). It seems very pretentious to waste all that space on 1) your name 2) lists of nothing (C++, etc.) centered in the page with nothing else.

              Ok, now let me read it...

              Its not bad, but I'm not sure I'd call you in this market. It seems too self promoting, which I've had bad luck with on follow ups, although overall its a better resume than what I usually have to suffer through.

              Resumes are simple. Just talk succinctly about what you've accomplished, not every minor thing you've dicked around with. And emphasize the recent, the past rarely matters as much.

              [–]sfx 10 points11 points  (7 children)

              I wrote my resume in LaTeX; it worked out well for me.

              [–]physicsnick 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Same. I wrote a few macros like \resumejob{}, \resumebulletpoint{}, etc. to do the layout and then just wrote a bunch of calls to them to fill it with all my info.

              The nice thing about doing it in LaTeX is it's extremely easy to tailor. I just comment and uncomment the relevant jobs and skills, hit build and it's done. This lets me spend all my time writing a good cover letter :)

              [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (4 children)

              Instant interview.

              [–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (3 children)

              I wrote my resume in XML, and wrote XSLT schemas to transform it into LaTeX, HTML, text, and RTF.

              It was a colossal waste of time, because I only ever sent out the PDFs, but it was fun.

              [–]sfx 10 points11 points  (0 children)

              If it's fun, then it's not a waste of your time.

              [–]TheWorldHatesPaul 0 points1 point  (1 child)

              xsl-fo?

              [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              No, because iirc the tools to do xsl-fo are all ungodly terrible (jade?) and xsl-fo was complicated and I already had a great layout in LaTeX.

              I simply had an XSLT template with a bunch of LaTeX code in it, and on transformation it would create a .tex file which was then run through for PDF.

              [–]f4hy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              I write everything in latex. I don't even have open office installed and have not for over a year now. Learning latex will make everything you write look more professional and I recommend to everyone putting in the few hours or so to learn.

              [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (42 children)

              This resume worked for me, but I'm no resume expert - feedback & criticism is most welcome :-)

              [–]lbrandy 23 points24 points  (30 children)

              1. Get it out of doc format (pdf, for example). Huge mistake, in my opinion. I use a mac, your resume opens in pages, but it appears to look like a hot mess (I am assuming this is due to the doc->pages conversion, but there's text overflowing every which way, and so on). I have no idea if it's supposed to look like this or not, and to be honet, your resume would be in the bin, already.

              2. You open with your "attributes" which is a huge amount of space wasted on what is basically resume marketing speak.

              3. Personal projects section is devoid of anything useful. If you have nothing to show off, get rid of it. A better solution would be to take one of those personal projects up to show-offable state, and put it in.

              4. Length is 4 pages (is this a conversion problem?). That is, realistically, too long.

              5. Your actual list of experience, with listing of responsibilities/experienced gained is well done.

              [–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (10 children)

              Virtually every job ive applied for lately has requested .doc. PDF, ODF, all not accepted.

              [–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (1 child)

              Agencies always wants a .doc file - so they can remove your contact details and take their cut.

              If you're applying direct the fact that the resume/cv is read-only is neither a pro nor a con. I've always submitted PDFs or straight text. But then again I use the xml resume to create my cv.

              [–]damncabbage 2 points3 points * (0 children)

              Agencies always wants a .doc file - so they can remove your contact details and take their cut.

              Seems to be the case. I sent an agency a PDF - they didn't complain, they just took a screenshot of it and pasted their logo in the corner.

              I still got the job (the lead dev doing the hiring knew that some recruiters are morons), but yeesh. :-|

              [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (3 children)

              Usually when places require .doc it's so they can have a computer automatically pick out keywords, and usually when they have a computer automatically pick out keywords they're a recruiter or similar.

              If your resume is getting sent to a person who's just going to double-click the attachment and print it, 99% of the time PDF is fine.

              [–]hyp3rVigi1ant 0 points1 point  (2 children)

              PDF files are electronic files that store text, too...this means a computer can also pick out keywords from PDF files. What software are these people using to pick out keywords and why is it so featureless?

              [–]ethicszen 5 points6 points  (0 children)

              I know a recruiter, the emphasis is on being able to modify the resume, so they can insert their own branding but if they feel like it modify the resume in other ways.

              [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              I'm guessing they're using home-grown stuff, possibly VBA. Fortunately I haven't dealt with recruiters in a long time.

              [–]lbrandy 14 points15 points  (3 children)

              Under normal economic conditions, that is a 'Run. Don't walk.' situation. I suppose, for now, you do what you need to do. Even still, the "default" format should never be .doc.

              [–]Entropy 9 points10 points  (0 children)

              You will not be working for the HR department

              [–]prototypist 5 points6 points  (1 child)

              I'm applying to internship/entry-level jobs in the US and it is consistently DOC/DOCX for uploading and submitting resumes. My college classes have reinforced this. Some jobs have suggested RTF or even TXT is acceptable. Only one asked for a PDF.

              Maybe PDF is more common for programmers hiring other experienced programmers?

              [–]Golgo13 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              Perhaps. In my totally unscientific survey which consists of me, I have seen a large chunk of PDF. Some doc (not docx) and then txt.

              [–]Entropy 4 points5 points  (4 children)

              Length is 4 pages (is this a conversion problem?). That is, realistically, too long.

              My friend's resume managed to not get passed up because his was the only one submitted that was a single page in length.

              [–]found_dead 6 points7 points  (3 children)

              I've heard the single page argument over and over again. So I talked to two friends that both hire programmers as part of their job, and they both stated they like to see multiple pages with the first page being a summary of what's to come.

              In my opinion, the single page resume should be used for most jobs applied for. But today, a lot of people try to get coding jobs without knowing a damn thing about programming. Employers need something to filter by.

              [–][deleted]  (1 child)

              [deleted]

                [–]s73v3r 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Do you feel that a person should stick with one of those throughout the entire work history? Because I tend to use them to indicate different levels of involvement with the particular activity (whether I was in charge, how much of the coding I did, etc)

                [–]badave 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Employers should be doing technical interviews...

                [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                I always send mine as an animated gif. That way I can demonstrate my working attitude in a delightful yet accurate way.

                [–]sonOfWil 0 points1 point  (5 children)

                Hi, I'm the guy who asked for help on writing the resume. But, do you have any resources for writing a technical/programming/computer science resume. I'm trying to gather as much resource and information in order to update my resume.

                [–]lbrandy 8 points9 points  (2 children)

                I am by no means an expert, but I have spent a fair bit of time looking at resumes. After spending alot of time at career fairs looking for new grads and interns, I wrote this up: http://lbrandy.com/blog/2009/01/resume-advice-for-software-engineering-new-grads-interns/

                It might give you some insight into how I read resumes and what I look for. This is a dangerous game, though, because everyone is different, and whether or not your resume is in the hands of a recruiter, an HR person, or a technical person makes the goals vary quite a bit.

                [–]sonOfWil 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                Thanks. I'll keep that in mind when I'm updating my resume.

                [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

                Judging by the feedback I've received here, you should ignore my resume completely!

                [–]sonOfWil 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Haha! It's cool. I'll probably look through it anyway. Besides, it's better to be criticized by a group of intelligent people instead of wondering whether or not something is broken.

                [–]johnaldmcgee 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Send it in the format they request. When I was last job hunting (~4 years ago), I kept a .doc, .pdf, .txt. All had the same information, but various companies would specify the format they wanted and I ended up using each of them.

                I pretty much agree with the rest of your assessment though.

                [–]s73v3r 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                I use a Mac too, but most of the jobs I apply for end up being Windows-based, or at least they use Windows at the job. I tend to have 3 copies of my resume: The original made in Pages, one exported to PDF, and one exported to DOC. I update the one in Pages, export it both times (I could probably write a script to do this, but it doesn't happen that often), and then send whichever one is requested. If neither is, then I go with PDF.

                [–]_tenken -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                if you use OSX you should buy the official MS product line to open up these types of files -- or use OpenOffice.

                you shouldn't fault an applicant for using software not natively written for your OS, nor your inability to open sed files using the proper software -- most companies accept PDF or Word as most students can create these files using publicly available tools found any on-campus lab.

                your remaining points are valid.

                note: written from my OSX laptop.

                [–]Hwaaa 6 points7 points * (0 children)

                What's Good

                Lots of good content. You have the requisite technical background, etc. and the recreational activities are a great thing to have (unless you mention any illegal activities.) I've found having non-work stuff has helped me a lot in interviews.

                I also think the design is decent aesthetically. It does come with some drawbacks, though. Like other users have mentioned, if you're relatively young, your resume should be a page, maybe 2 at the most.

                To Improve

                1. Ditch the attributes section completely. Every person who interviews says they have excellent code quality, etc. What you should do instead is subtlety infer these attributes in some of your descriptions.

                2. Contract the "technologies gained experienced in" section. It takes up a lot of space. Also, if I were interviewing, I'd be dubious that you were excellent in all of the technologies you listed. In job descriptions, stick to the prime ones. Leave the others for your technical skills area.

                3. Add specific descriptions of what you actually did at the job. For example, "Integrated a shopping cart from Verisign with a client's PHP-based web page." or "Worked with a local business in an iterative process to create a Django-based (Python) web site."

                4. And like the other people said, make it shorter and add tangible personal projects or eliminate the section.

                Critiques aside, your resume could definitely help a lot of people. Also, by looking at it, an employer can tell you're passionate, which may be more important than any of the critiques found here.

                [–]yoden 8 points9 points * (1 child)

                You don't really know what you're talking about. Getting a job doesn't make you decent about resumes or interviewing, it just means you're not an idiot. Seriously, the bar for a programming job isn't actually that high, and largely resumes don't matter compared to skills (which, granted, often need to be conveyed in a resume; this isn't hard).

                Things I noticed about your resume:

                1. 3 pages long and you're a year out of college? What a joke. Also, if you were to send me this without staples, I'd have an irrational life-long hatred for you >:| Page numbers on a resume is pretty hilarious, but I guess it's better than the nothing I'd usually get...

                2. You repeat your skills on the first page and under each job as "Technologies I gained experience in." Unnecessary.

                3. No one cares about attributes like "ability to work as part of a team." Every applicant can just say that nonsense; you gotta learn those things from the interview. Luckily your actual skills are first, which is good. The examples are at least a cute touch, but to me you're wasting half of your first page.

                4. No education on first page. Are you a college student? Graduate? Masters? Senior dev with years of experience? It honestly took me several minutes of scanning to determine; in the real world that could hose you.

                5. Employment History and Education sections waste tons of space with gigantic margins (or did you just do this for marking up with the red boxes?)

                6. No GPA under education section; some will tell not to include it after a certain point, but to me, I'd rather someone list their 2.5 GPA; if I see nothing it's unknown, and unknown gets you forgotten.

                7. Personal projects section is worthless because it has no examples. Actually, it sounds fabricated. If it's real, put a link in there. Seeing effective personal projects is one of the biggest advantages you can get. Source code is even better if you can link an OSS project, though if you're good enough we'll contact you for some.

                8. More of a personal preference, but I think references are worthless. If you can't find three people to say good things about you, I'm certain we'll weed you out of the hiring process much easier than calling and interviewing your references. I'd usually say don't include them because then you can have more relevant information while keeping the page count down.

                9. If they don't specify .doc, I'd suggest pdf. You can never know how your resume will look in the wonky version of word they happen to be using.

                That said, it isn't all bad. What I like:

                1. Prominent name and contact information, email first. Yes.

                2. Skills are next, ordered by proficiency.

                3. Cool projects listed under coursework; it shows you really care about what you're doing and weren't just at uni because that's what daddy wanted.

                4. Recreation activities are great to list, at least in brief, because they let the company get to know you personally a little better. Asking interviewees about their interests is a great way to make them comfortable and get to know them better. This would happen at pretty much every job you'd send this resume to, I'd bet.

                5. Colors. I like a tasteful level of color in the resume, but if you're not delivering a hard copy and are instead emailing or faxing you need to be careful. Make sure the color degrades well.

                **Edit: grammar.

                [–]toolate 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                No GPA under education section; some will tell not to include it after a certain point, but to me, I'd rather someone list their 2.5 GPA; if I see nothing it's unknown, and unknown gets you forgotten.

                I've never had anyone care for my GPA. Perhaps the faceination with grades is an American thing?

                Edit: * I just remembered I *do list my GPA on my resume. Ha.

                [–]brownmatt 1 point2 points  (5 children)

                As someone who reviews resumes and screens and interviews candidates for developer positions here is my feedback:

                • The attributes section is at best a waste of space and at worst laughable. Your manager once paid you a compliment? That's great, but I don't care. Someone gave you a good code review? I don't care, I have no way to verify it. You have a passion for software as demonstrated by your passion for software? That's what we call a tautology.
                • Your "Employment History" section tells me very little about what you actually did in each position. "Developed new functionality" - what developer isn't responsible for that? As a prospective employer I'd be looking for very specific examples of what types of projects you worked on, types of things you implemented, and your specific role (please don't use "participated in...").
                • The "Personal Projects" section also gives very little information and none of it verifiable. How many is "a number of personal websites"? If you really want to include this in your resume (and I'd debate if your projects merits being included), talk about what the project was and what it did.
                • Recreational Activities - waste of space (and stating that music is your greatest love but making sure you still express your love for software development sounds desperate)

                [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (4 children)

                Wow. Basically all the feedback I've gotten here has been really negative. I genuinely thought this resume was decent given the feedback from employers I've gotten about it, but it appears I have much to learn. Thankfully I shouldn't need to look for a new job any time soon.

                [–]toolate 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                I wouldn't worry too much. While much of the criticism is valid to some extent it obviously did the job (ha!) for you. It's quite rare to see an actual resume so thanks for sharing.

                You get an upvote for being from Brisbane.

                [–]wasthedavecollins 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                You should remember that most of the feedback is from non Australians. If you did submit a one pager to an Australian company there would be a fair chance they would thing you know nothing and not give you an interview.

                [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                Yeah I've been thinking some of the criticism is regional. For example, ALL the stuff I've read on writing a resume has said to list referees, yet a bunch of people here have said not to bother with that. I just assumed that resume formats would be universal. Ah well you live and learn :-)

                [–]vimfan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                CV writing is an inconsistent art. I've had recruiters give me completely conflicting advice about how to write a CV.

                [–]dsk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Nice format. The "Attributes" section is kinda pointless and gets front page real-estate? I'd move "Education" there or maybe some sort of a summary.

                [–]rotzak 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                Too long. 1 page.

                [–]esquilax 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                "Robbo McNarwhal!? With a name like that, hire this man as soon as possible. I want to make him my Executive Vice President!"

                [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                Sending me a Word document resume is a sure-fire way to have me not even read it. I'm probably not your target, though, since VB6 and .NET would have the same effect as the doc. Heh.

                [–]betabob 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                If (resume.pageCount() > 2) { resume.sendToRecycleBin(); }

                [–]icydog 8 points9 points  (0 children)

                This code implies that the resume knows about the recycle bin. A poorly programmed resume in my opinion.

                I think it would be a better design to write this as recycleBin.consume(resume).

                [–]PaeTar 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                It is an interesting take on a skills based one that I have been working on. Reads more like a website. Congrats on the job!

                [–]RedSpikeyThing 0 points1 point  (4 children)

                I used the skills proficiency section -- I broke it into "proficient with", "working knowledge of", and "familiar of" -- on my most recent resume and the interviewers found it quite helpful. There are a lot of resumes where people claim to be proficient in everything they have ever come into contact with. The honesty reflects well on you and allows the interviewer to assess your strengths, rather than ask a little about everything and find lots of weaknesses.

                [–]jackystan 1 point2 points  (3 children)

                "familiar of"? Is that the section where you list the English language?

                [–]RedSpikeyThing 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                A typographical error? On the INTERNET? Well I never!

                [–]48klocs 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                There's a valid point behind the snark - keep typos and grammatical errors out of your resumes. They are giant red flags when I review them; I inevitably read them as the mark of a person who does not take pride in their work. I'll let things slide a little if it's obvious they're not a native English speaker, but it doesn't help their cause.

                [–]RedSpikeyThing 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                Your assumption is that was copy and pasted from my resume. It is, in fact, grammatically correct on my resume.

                [–]Shocker88 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Thanks for the link - very useful. As others have said, .pdf could potentially be more universal.

                Question however - although creepy -did you attend QUT? a few things in the resume give me the idea you might also attend ;)

                [–]daruka 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Very spiffy format, thanks for sharing!

                [–]keepinithamsta 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                I stole it and replaced it with my information if you don't mind.

                [–]claco 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                I'm sure my opine is not popular, but I say the hell with paper resumes period. We have LinkedIn for a reason. Keep it updated and let people pull the PDF from your profile if they're interested. It's 2010 after all.

                [–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

                That's the first good (great actually) resume I've seen from someone proclaiming theirs as a model resume.